Sierra Club Letter of Support

Aug. 21, 2019

Supervisor Dennis Rodoni, Marin County Board of Supervisors
Judge Paul Haakenson, Marin County Superior Court

RE: The Last Resort/The Lagunitas Project

Dear Supervisor Rodoni and Judge Haakenson:

The Marin Group Sierra Club, representing 6600 members in Marin County, supports the reinstatement of the Marin County Architectural Commission resolution that all 36 structures on the 2-acre property of David Lee Hoffman in Lagunitas constitute a cultural and historic landmark of local importance.

The work of David Lee Hoffman’s architectural, ecological vision, The Last Resort, stands as a living model of what we can and should be doing in order to live in a truly sustainable way on the earth. As a representation of the “Back to the Land” movement of the 60’s, it is an outstanding example of regenerative design, and in line with directions that communities are calling for in efforts such as Project Drawdown Marin.

In the spirit of “waste is not waste until it’s wasted”, The Last Resort is an environmental model of sustainable and harmonious living. It attempts to assimilate both natural methods from the past with modern know-how to create a living system that effectively demonstrates possibilities of thriving in a non-polluting healthy environment. Its mission is to discover and perfect practical low-cost sustainable methods for waste management, water re-use, and food security. To this end, a unique integrated bio-management system has been successfully developed.

While the land use of The Last Resort property is unconventional, we acknowledge that unconventional approaches will be needed, in order to overcome the global environmental challenges facing humanity.

Under normal circumstances, the Sierra Club would be inclined to challenge property use that involved over-building. In this case, whatever its origins, we now feel that there are vitally important overriding considerations in favor of preservation.

In the case of The Last Resort property, we feel that there are two main overriding considerations in favor of preservation:

1. On The Last Resort property, Mr. Hoffman has demonstrated a nearly closed-loop cycle for waste treatment and food production, on a very small property. This is anextraordinarily powerful and unique working example of sustainability, from which, we believe, many individuals and land-use designers can learn, to the benefit of humanity.

2. Mr. Hoffman has freely treated the property as a community resource, opening the property to tours by international land-use designers, individuals interested in small scale sustainable land-use, and even local school field trips, as well as offering a meeting space. This is precisely how we feel the sustainability aspect of this property should be regarded – as a living, working model that attempts to demonstrate possibilities for small-scale, closed-loop sustainable living – one that shares its efforts and lessons learned with others, while remaining a real-world residence.

We are very grateful for your recent efforts to reach a compromise that preserves this property as a historic landmark. As the process of working with Mr. Hoffman progresses, we also express the imperative to reinstate Marin County’s own Architectural Commission’s ruling that David’s site is historically important. This would allow the use of the California Historic Building Code asa guideline and protections this code offers. Reinstating the Commission’s ruling is ethical and allows for long-awaited progress in complying with reasonable code  upgrades and an ultimate resolution.

We feel that Mr. Hoffman is a visionary who has pioneered solutions to climate change. These solutions lie in the very structures and systems that would be destroyed if the Commission’s unanimous ruling continues to be discounted or ignored. We believe the demolition of thiswork would be a black mark on the face of Marin County, and a significant lost opportunity to protect and preserve this unique site and its historical import, past and  future. We do not want to lose The Last Resort.

We request that Marin County, through their receiver, reinstate their own Commission’s unanimous ruling, which declared that David’s property deserves local historic status. The reinstatement of the County Architectural Commission ruling would be the final step in bringing closure to the issue of preserving as much of The Last Resort site as possible without interfering with the work of the receiver.

We believe that if Mr. Hoffman loses The Last Resort, we all lose — and we believe that the solution is outlined by the steps presented to you by The Lagunitas Project.

We are truly thankful to have you addressing these issues.

Judy Schriebman, Chair, Marin Group Sierra Club

Protecting the Marin environment since 1968,
2530 San Pablo Ave., Suite I, Berkeley, CA 94702

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I Stand With The Last Resort

Dear Supervisor Rodoni and Judge Haakenson,

We immensely appreciate your recent efforts to, at long last, reach a compromise that preserves The Last Resort, David Lee Hoffman’s property, as a historic landmark. As the process of working with David progresses, we must express the imperative to reinstate Marin County’s own Architectural Commission’s ruling that David’s site is historically important. This would allow the use of the California Historic Building Code as a guideline and protections this code offers. Reinstating the Commission’s ruling is ethical and allows for long-awaited progress in complying with reasonable code upgrades and an ultimate resolution.

This is a work of art, as well as a vision of sustainable architecture and living. It exemplifies principles of the Green New Deal and the 60’s Back to the Land movement, bridging the decades with thoughtful, truly intelligent ecological design.

We do not want to lose The Last Resort, nor do we want to lose David  as a friend, neighbor, and contributor to our community.

We feel that David is a visionary who, during the past 40 years, has created solutions to climate change issues that we face as a global community. These solutions lie in the very structures and systems that stand to be destroyed if the Commission’s unanimous ruling continues to be discounted or ignored. We believe the demolition of his work would severely endanger the health, safety, beauty and tranquility of Marin County – and the potential for large-scale solutions that David’s innovation provides.

We request that Marin County, through their receiver, reinstate their own Commission’s unanimous ruling, which declared that David’s property deserves local historic status. You, too, recently stated in your January 31, 2017 letter to the appointed receiver, “Furthermore, please consider this an official request from my office to include architectural and cultural value determinations on the Hoffman property in your final recommendations.”  The reinstatement of the County Architectural Commission ruling would be the final step in bringing closure to the issue of preserving as much of David’s site as possible without interfering with the work of the receiver.

We believe that if David loses, we all lose — and we believe the solution is outlined by the steps in this petition.

We are truly thankful to have you addressing these issues.

We support the reinstatement of the Marin County Architectural Commission resolution that all 36 structures on the 2-acre property of David Lee Hoffman in Lagunitas constitute a cultural and historic landmark of local importance.


Judy S.
San Rafael, CA 94903

Jeanette Freudenberger Letter

Dear Judge Haakenson,

I just have a simple question to consider.  At some point David’s money may run out and then what would happen?  He will be 75 this year and is also suffering from Lyme.  If there is any way to draw this whole situation to an end, for the benefit of his physical and financial health and have some peace in the later years of his life, that would be most helpful.  As I’m sure the County wants to be done with this too.


Jeanette Freudenberger

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Jxxx Mxxx Cxxx Letter

On Jun 9, 2019, at 6:47 PM, Jxxx Cxxx <jxxxcxxx@XXX> wrote:

Thank you, Dxxxx. Here is a more prolix summary of what I told Dunker Donuts Sxxxx, based on reporting he sent me:

1. Judge has generously and subtly shifted the terms to the less rigorous historical preservation standard away from the more rigorous county standard. Big win.
2. Historical standard does not supersede county environmental and sanitary mandates. This is now about optics, as receiver suggested. You see “pioneering sustainability,” they see “worms” and “pooh.” You will never ever ever change that narrative. And you give openings to NIMBYs if you plant your flag on that worm hill.
3. Continue your compost toilet and water reclamation innovations at another location or video document them for future researchers and showcasing at store. The storefront in town becomes the resource center for information about all that you accomplished at the Last Resort. Docents lead small, highly selective tours of small groups to the Last Resort, once it is fully gussied up for John Q. Public without killing its inimitable appeal. Large groups cause invocation of assembly requirements and a quick descent into the worm hole of regulatory hell, from which few arise.
4. Build a new narrative. As Don Draper [Madmen] said, “If you don’t like what people are saying, change the topic.” Get this off “pooh and worms” and onto “art, architecture, and the glories of tea.”
5. “Sustainability” in normally progressive Marin in this unregulated context raises red flags for politicos. “What, you protected the pooh guy? Why do I have to abide by your dang septic tank ordinance?!” David, brother, you need to drop this part of your work as an olive branch to Caesar. No more composting toilets or water reclamation. Document it professionally before you shut it down.
6. Having done number 5, you have suddenly changed the narrative from “David Hoffman is creating unsanitary water for our kids and denying water to the salmon” to “Hey Big Brother, why you shutting down the life’s work of this master artist, architect, craftsman and guru of tea?”
The tide has turned. Something has shifted. Maybe it was the letter. Not sure. But the judge was also dead serious. Your Lagunitas Project team needs to get the nonprofit terms exactly right to hold off the receiver. The rebranding I discussed above happens in that document and in all public-facing presentations.
If the judge gives you an A-plus in 60 days, and puts you squarely inside the historical framework, you can then cordon off the debt, and begin building the reality of the newly conceived Lagunitas Project. Any backsliding, any hesitation, the judge calls in the cavalry. He made that very clear.
You can do this!


Pecked, Poorly Thumbed from iPhone of:
Jxxx Mxxx Cxxx

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Letter from David Lee Hoffman to Jxxx Mxxx Cxx

June 19, 2019

Hello Jxx,

1) I’m hearing the hearing was good news. Even the judge said I should be jumping up and down with joy. Yeah. Sure. Any good news must have resulted from your letter. Thanks to you and Duncan and a half dozen others who worked on it. So a big thanks and a pat on the back to us all. Yet another reprieve, albeit a short one, two months.

2) Maybe I’m a product of the sixties but I thought it was a good thing to deal with ones own shit. This could have many interpretations. Shit is an important link with sustainable living. It’s actually the backbone of all my biological systems – worms, or more specifically worm casts, is what powers them. Worm casts is a polite way of saying worm shit. Even Charles Darwin recognized their importance and wrote his last book on earthworms: The Formation of Vegetable Mould throughthe Action of Worms. “Vegetable mould” is another polite way of saying worm shit. I say…

Support Your Local Underground Movement!

Worms work. This has been my focus of my life for nearly a half a century. Worm casts is nature’s finest fertilizer and brings healthy life back to the soil. My tasty garden food is living proof of it’s magic. Yes I’m proud to “plant my flag atop Pooh Hill”.

Le Grand Pissoir

-a self-contained bio-digestive toilet system

I have built Le Grand Pissoir responsibly to guarantee that what goes on inside, stays inside, until harvest. It is completely self-contained and isolated from the environment beyond its footprint. Even another deluge as we had in ’82 would not cause the systems to spill into the environment. So bring out the lab folks in white coats with their testing vials before screaming environmental health hazard.

The mountains of paperwork that has been generated by the County over The Last Resort is staggering. One does not become more informed by reading their reports, rather you will be misinformed (example: they claim the lake where Titanic II is moored is “sewage water from the toilet” – in fact it is 100% rain water!) If any guest does not feel comfortable feeding our worms through Le Grand Pissoir, they are welcome to use the indoor conventional sanitized white porcelain toilet that is hooked up to a tested, inspected, and approved concrete septic tank (and all documentation is on file with the County).

3) Of course you’re not the first person to suggest I abandon my grey water systems and composting toilets, that Government and County Health would never never never ever condone such systems. Toilet and turds are taboo and best left to others who make protection of our lives their livelihood. Unfortunately septic tanks are archaic, obsolete, and can never be made sustainable. The whole concept is wrong. Annual inspection, pumping, disposal, and regulatory fees are all unnecessary expenses incurred by residents. Waste is not waste until its wasted.

I’ve never suggested others should live their lives like I do. Heaven forbid! But I am shouting out as loud as I can, that the way we’re currently living on earth has brought our planet into a major crisis. We are in the midst of the Sixth Mass Extinction (but unlike the other five, this one is human caused). Shouldn’t our government at least be having a discussion on some alternatives?

No Jim. I’m too old and too tired to start anew at another location. Besides it would set me back 45 years with only just an idea that I once believed in but failed miserably because I couldn’t convince the authorities its worth. When I sold my last business for a million dollars I thought I was on the road to retirement. Because I didn’t have a clever tax person, I ended up paying $450,000 in taxes to the government. Oh well I thought. Now that I’ve paid into the system at least that makes me a good citizen, right? (I resented that most of that money went to our war machine.) Mark Twain said it best, “patriotism is loving your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it!”

Our poop is a resource.

Our water is precious.

Our soil is sacred.

(and no one can scare me into believing otherwise.)

I have no compassion to help those who suffer from acute fecalphobia. My reaction to this is a question. Why do we shit into our drinking water and think its a good thing? It is so difficult and expensive to get it back to drinking water again (and why is flushing with grey water still illegal?)

No. I’m a dreamer. Le Grand Pissoir has far exceeded my original expectations. The results are quite remarkable. The system is easily scalable to service several homes or an entire community. My system could resolve the problems on the Woodacre Flats. It is said our minds are like parachutes; they only work when open. I have no desire to get involved with  local politics over the failing septic tank issue.

Yes TLR is needing to be gussied up. I’m constantly working on that one.

4) When the County issues me an experimental permit for Le Grand Pissoir, we can change the conversation and focus on giving visitors new and creative ideas. May they return home with a little bit more hope for the future and may they plant their own seeds for a better tomorrow.

5) Shut down and document? Isn’t that the same principle they use with documenting species on the verge of extinction?

6) Jim, I certainly don’t have the political experience as you to draw on and I respect your perspective. I’m certainly not savvy with Washington politics and I’m really at a loss in how to proceed. Still, I have my dignity and I know I didn’t do a bad thing here. Isn’t it enough that I’m willing to give up ownership of the property and donate my life’s work to the San Geronimo Valley Community through The Lagunitas Project? Must I really come up with a million dollars as well for the County in order for my gift to be accepted?

I certainly can’t predict the future, nor change the past, but I certainly am not going limp away with my tail between my legs. I have to face my own reality that I’ve probably been scofflaw all my life, and at 75 I’m not to easily rehabilitated. I’m putting my hope with the non-profit The Lagunitas Project.

I’m still in disbelief that someone can simply sign a piece of paper and all of a sudden my home of 46 years is no longer my home. My last two attorneys kept telling me to remove all tea, art, and any valuables off the property; that the Receiver could show up any time with an empty 20 foot van and just start hauling stuff off the property. Really!! And all this just because I didn’t have a building permit? Cruel and unusual punishment? Elder abuse? Or just the way of the world?

Please excuse my rambling. I struggle with difficulty writing letters. The last time I looked there were some 1600 unanswered emails in my inbox. Well now I have one less. Thanks again for your support.

By the way, if you’re still willing to drop into Jared Huffman’s office, we can certainly use some high-powered catalyst to help sanity prevail…


David Lee Hoffman, CDO

The Last Resort

David Hoffman Letter to Supervisor Dennis Rodoni

The Last Resort
June 3rd, 2019

Dear Supervisor Rodoni,

Thank you again for meeting with me. I greatly appreciated your making time for discussing the situation at the Last Resort and wanting to help us move to a resolution in the best interests of all concerned.

We both know the history of the situation, and agree that mistakes were made. And we both agree that the current situation with the Receiver will not take us to a satisfactory conclusion.

As Supervisor, you are in a position to help move us to a more positive path, and anything you can do to make that happen would be most welcome.

I implore you to write a letter to the Court making concrete suggestions on how the situation can best be resolved. Please use any of the points made below.

My next court date with Judge Haakenson is this Friday, June 7th at 9 a.m, Courtroom F. It would certainly help our situation to have a positive letter from you to show the judge. Many of our supporters are also anxious to hear your position.

While I respect the need for legal representation, after having nine attorneys represent me without success, I am representing myself. Having spent more than $500,000 onlegal fees, the situation is not resolved.

I am proposing a new approach:

  • I admit my responsibility for past violations and will renegotiate all outstanding fines, penalties and taxes to make a reasonable payment plan to the County over aperiod of years.
  •  As you know, a non-profit corporation, The Lagunitas Project, has been established to create a “Regional Environmental Model for Sustainable and Harmonious Living” as a way to continue my vision for a sustainable environment and benefit the Marin community and beyond.
  • The non-profit received seed funding which has allowed the organization to hire professional staff, develop a strategic plan, and create a capital campaign to meet the County’s requirements.
  • With your help in securing the future of The Last Resort, I believe we can create a new path to resolution without the oversight of the Receiver.
  • Once all the legal details are in place, I will sign ownership of the property to The Lagunitas Project and they will work directly with the County.
  • We will also seek to reinstate the property with the historical significance as was voted by the Marin County Architectural Commission.

We hope a commitment to the points above will settle all legal issues and ensure the continued existence of my life’s work!


David Lee Hoffman, CDO

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More Letters of Support

A letter in support of David Lee Hoffman's 'Last Resort' efforts.

A preview of the letters inside this PDF.

Click here to open the PDF containing these Letters of Support.

Lagunitas local John Torrey’s LETTER TO THE EDITOR

Point Reyes Light, August 27, 2015
Hoffman’s site is historic

Regarding the “Tea Purveyor” article, the piece makes no mention of the legal framework behind historic documentation which is to protect the property from demolition acknowledging the site’s historic status protection from CEQA. A report documenting the property’s potential as County historic landmark was provided to Supervisor Kinsey almost 3 years ago.

I put it together. Kinsey simply sat on it.

The County needs a demolition permit in order to proceed with any destruction of the property. Even if the county waives the need for a demolition permit they are still liable to a CEQA challenge if there is any threat to potential historic structures on the property.

The property in its entirety is, like Watts Tower, a folk art environment and is, according to three historic experts, protected by two criteria of the California Register of Historical Resources. It should be noted that if the property is not listed but nevertheless meets the criteria specified in California Public Resources Code section 5024.1 (defining eligibility for listing in the California Register of Historical Resources), then it is presumed to be “historically significant.”

Nor did the article make any mention of perhaps the most egregious example of local political betrayal. A 1,000 person petition was provided to Kinsey along with the historic report. Speaking for the petitioners, I can state unequivocally that the petition makes clear that San Geronimo Valley residents want a cooperative plan developed to save the property. Kinsey never even acknowledged the petition. Again, he just sat on it. He doesn’t get it. We don’t work for him. He works for us. We’re the boss, not him. Obviously, ignoring petitions sets a very dangerous precedent for the entire county.

Kinsey has said many times to me and others that “he has always wanted to save Hoffman’s property.” Yet like a lot of politicians he has no intention of saving the property at all. He simply says things like that to make himself feel good. It’s a pure giveaway line. David, his attorney Paul Smith and I have worked tirelessly to come up with the basics of a cooperative plan to be developed in conjunction with the County to save the property based on the following:

Removal of tea from the site. Presentation to the County of an independent hydrology report documenting the site’s grey- water, blackwater, and drainage systems. A revision to the financial obligations of the property that will provide for necessary future maintenance of the property and payment of fines while not at the same time creating unsustainable debt. A third party professional agreeable to the County to act as an alternate to the receiver for the property designated by the County. This person would have the ability to evaluate and execute necessary health and safety upgrades on the property. Recognition of the property as an historic resource in accordance with criteria of the California Register of Historical Resources.

Will the County meet with us or will they simply ignore Valley residents and the state’s environmental law? Hopefully the Point Reyes Light will pursue this issue head on in the true spirit of investigative journalism and its Pulitzer Prize reputation.

John Torrey

Richard Lang and Judith Selby Lang’s LETTER TO THE EDITOR

Point Reyes Light, August 20, 2015
Support Hoffman

Thanks to Samantha Kimmey for her report (Aug. 13, 2015) about David Hoff- man, tea purveyor par excellence, sustainability maven and artist of the first order. We were heartened to read that the county is considering special designations for some of the buildings at Hoffman’s architectural wonder, the Last Resort, in Lagunitas. We support this decision however it is important to recognize that every stitch of the Last Resort is important to the whole. Being there one feels the uplift of being inside a great vision, coherent and, above all, useful. It’s not a far stretch to feel the embodiment of great structures that were both useful and stunning to the psyche. What Hoffman has realized in stone and wood is nothing short of the wonder of Simon Rodia’s Watts Towers in Los Angeles or the standing stones of Stonehenge—beautiful in their own right and functional as an agricultural time piece.

We’ve known Hoffman some 40 years, since his arrival in the San Geronimo Val- ley, and have marveled at his energy for building and designing supreme useful- ness into the very structures crucial to our survival on planet earth. Hoffman has fashioned water systems, food systems, and waste systems that are self-sustaining. In our drought times his exemplary water works, that use grey water for his worms and garden, should be adopted as true alternatives to ameliorate our water crisis.

Everything at Hoffman’s home is beautiful and beautifully useful. The Last Re- sort is a work of art. Our vote is for the county receiver to re-shape the entirety of the Last Resort into a teaching center for the beauty of sustainability—as a precious resource for now and for the future.

We encourage everyone to sign the petition of support at http://thelastresortla- and write to Supervisor Steve Kinsey (

A.J. Marson has created a short film, a testimony to David’s fine work…

Richard Lang and Judith Selby Lang
Forest Knolls

Letter from David Lee Hoffman to Jxxx Bxxx

 The Last Resort
July 15th, 2015 

Hi Jean, 

It was 15 years ago I read a little blurb tucked away in the back pages of a newspaper talking about species extinction rate had surpassed 100 per day! I remember thinking why wasn’t this information headlined on the front page of every newspaper? It’s taken me all these years to understand the answer to this conundrum. The attitude of the Planning Group reminded me of this. 

It is so easy in wealthy, comfortable Marin to disregard the cries of the planet and believe our money can fix the ills and protect us from future personal discomforts and inconveniences. We separate and isolate ourselves from nature and real sustainable life. We forget that we too are just creatures of the planet dependent on clean water and air, and healthy food. It’s from our ignorance and arrogance that blinds us to our beautiful planet’s current fate, the Sixth Mass Extinction. Unlike the other five, this one is caused by the way we have chosen to live on the planet. It comes as no surprise that this information isn’t on the front page either! 

It’s a folly to think our complacent leaders and politicians will resolve the problem (let alone even have a dialog that a problem exists). We are living in difficult and challenging times. We need bold and innovative action. We need leaders and politicians with a backbone strong enough to stand up and fight for the planet. It is not enough to put in a few bike trails and then boast that Marin has “one of the greenest counties in the country”? 

We are in the midst of a drought the likes not seen for 500 years. The same ridiculous and archaic laws with regards to water are still in place. Greywater systems that function are illegal. Composting toilets are illegal. It is illegal to capture and store winter rainwater running down the driveway. I know because I am being penalized for all three. 

I eat almost exclusively out of my organic garden all year around and have done so for 40 years. I enjoy fresh fruit off my trees that I planted. My water supply is meager but I’ve so far managed to grow 

my own food and still have some left for friends and neighbors. My MMWD water usage is less than a third of county average. Why? Because I irrigate using grey water and stored rainwater. 

I can also grow great tasting and healthy food without purchasing any input for the soil. All fertilizer is generated in situ on the premises. In 42 years on the property, I have never used herbicides, fungicides, or pesticides and have never had an insect problem. Frogs, snakes, lizards roam freely in the garden. 

My carbon footprint is minimal; 3 •••lbs of firewood cooks an entire meal. That’s less than a SUV uses to drive to Fairfax and back. Or I can easily cook the same in my solar cooker when the sun is shining. But wood ash provides valuable minerals and nutrients for the soil and is an important addition to my earthworm’s diet. 

I have lived and have worked out of my home for 42 years. From the beginning, the County of Marin has been selling me a business license for my tea business. Now they want my little business moved off the property. I will probably close up shop as I’m too old to begin anew somewhere else. 

All these years of unpermitted labor has been done with one purpose in mind: to build a demonstration model of sustainability. With that I am successful. Many visitors come here and see only the whimsical architecture and eclectic structures. John Torrey was motivated to pursue Historic Landmark Status because of the overall Folk Art theme. Walter Scott was impressed by the designs and construction techniques. But for me, first and foremost, are the systems in place for handling “waste” and water recycling. I am not proselytizing theories, but can demonstrate in practice viable alternatives to our common polluting and wasteful practices. 

I recently had a tribal leader from Africa visit me where the preciousness of water is clearly understood by all who politely asked, “you Americans strange. Why do you shit in your drinking water?” 

And wash our cars, do our laundry, hose down the sidewalks, all with purified drinking water! As an ever-increasing thirsty planet struggles with the lack of clean, safe water, isn’t this a good time for a paradigm shift? 

I’m a worker, I make things, I invent things. I’ve been using my hands as tools for construction all my life. But I also seem to have a knack for getting on the wrong side of the law. Now I’m at the end of the road here as far as being able to live in my home. The majority of the $350,000 fine the County has levied against me has been applied to my tax bill. This will allow them to sell my property for unpaid taxes. I’ve already spent over $100,000 in legal fees. Unless my current attorney can convince the County to go back to an earlier reduced fine of $60,000.00, which I have agreed to pay, I think its time for me to give up the legal battle and leave Marin. 

Jean, I’m not asking for any help from you. I knowingly and willingly built without permits for forty-two years. I will accept my fate. But I do want you to know I have been, and will remain, a big fan of yours. The work you have done to preserve the beautiful character of this valley is your legacy. I am honored to have been your neighbor and friend all these years. 

My best wishes to you and your family, 


P.S. By the way, we are having an open house on Saturday, August 8th, from 10:00am to 5:00 pm. Please drop by if you can. I don’t believe anyone on the Planning Group has ever been to my property. They are welcome to come as well…